Open Waters Podcast
This podcast is all about what God is doing in Utah through the church, and through the ministry of Open Waters Worship. If you don't know who we are, we are a worship ministry in the heart of Salt Lake City, Utah who's reason for being is JESUS. We want all people to have GROWTH, not only in relationship with our King, but with the people around us as well. We also want people to cultivate a deep and pure INTIMACY with God, and from that intimacy a FREEDOM to be who we are called to be; and to top it off we want the body of Christ to radiate UNITY. The body as a whole can accomplish so much more than one person alone. So we want to ask you, are you ready to join us in an effort to unify the body, and grow in relationship? Are you ready for what true intimacy with the King looks like? If so, come give us a listen! We'd love to hear your feedback as well. Tell us your thoughts and if you have a question feel free to reach out to us! We love you and pray for an overflowing in all avenues of your life <3
Open Waters Podcast
47: Learning to Hear the Voice of God and the Importance of Failure
Have you ever wondered how to truly hear God's voice during worship or what it means when you feel those spiritual goosebumps? Join us as we embark on a soul-stirring exploration of the profound impact that discerning God's guidance can have on our worship experience, and the importance of moving past the fear of making mistakes and embracing the learning process with faith and grace.
In our discussion, we liken God to a perfect father, guiding us with love and patience much like earthly parents cheer on their toddlers. We delve into the balance between striving for perfection and accepting God's grace, emphasizing the active role of the Holy Spirit in elevating our worship. You'll discover the transformative power of hearing God's voice, from fostering unity and deeper connection within the congregation to experiencing physical manifestations of His presence. We also explore the significance of spiritual gifts such as prophecy, tongues, and discernment in enriching our worship and edifying the church.
Navigating the challenges of discerning the Holy Spirit's guidance during worship practice can be daunting, but we tackle these head-on with practical advice and personal anecdotes. We encourage worship leaders and congregants alike to step out in faith, learn from their mistakes, and embrace the uncomfortable as part of their spiritual growth. Wrapping up with a heartfelt prayer for healing and self-forgiveness, we invite you to seek God's perspective on your perceived failures and to view them as stepping stones on your journey. Tune in for an episode filled with wisdom, encouragement, and a deeper understanding of how hearing God's voice can transform your worship experience.
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Welcome.
Speaker 2:Welcome. Don't mind me, I'm sipping my golden milk latte.
Speaker 1:It's not actually a latte, it's tea. Guys, no stress Anyway.
Speaker 2:It's a generic latte, mmm, it's yummy.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's great I had one myself anyway. Anyway, today is the 47th episode of the Open Waters Podcast.
Speaker 2:Yes, I really enjoyed doing our last segment on the types of worship. I actually now am going through the names in my head and thinking about them as I worship or hear different types of worship, so it's super cool.
Speaker 1:How many can you name?
Speaker 2:Oh, come on, Okay, barak Todah Yadah.
Speaker 1:Barak, Todah Yadah, you got Zamora.
Speaker 2:Oh, Zamora was the last. Halal, Halal. That's it.
Speaker 1:See, I was trying to think of it I think I said Shabak didn't. I no, Okay, I meant that one Shabak. And then there's one last one, which is the one I can't remember for some reason it's the one, Tamar. It's Tota. No, it has to do with halaling.
Speaker 2:I know what it is. I know what it is. I know what it is.
Speaker 1:I threw on the spot, but anyway, guys.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the episode. This is how it is. We're just real. Sometimes, we forget the names of the words as well, so no stress if you guys haven't gotten them yet.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's a learning process. But, that goes along the lines of what we're talking about today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's good, nice segue.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how we are going to talk about the importance of hearing God's voice or the Holy Spirit's voice as well. You know the Trinity, whichever one is talking to you.
Speaker 2:One and the same.
Speaker 1:And hearing their voice and the importance of failure as well in hearing God's voice.
Speaker 2:I think that's a fantastic subject. Man, oh man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so what are your initial thoughts? Because the reason I came up with this topic is because I've talked with Manuel about this quite a bit, at least when we've had a couple meetings and stuff like that. It's just it's very important for people to fail and a lot of the time we get frozen before we do anything.
Speaker 1:So a lot of people, and especially in worship this this also correlates to things outside of worship, but we're going to keep it practically really related to to worship, because that's what we do yeah is, and we're open waters, worship, so, um, but when we get to like, let's say, we're in worship, we're on a sunday morning or a thursday afternoon and whatever you do, um, and we're getting into worship and we're we're hitting a point where you know God's speaking, but you don't know where he's wanting to take you or what he's trying to tell you to go, where he's trying to tell you to go. Most of the time, what people do is, instead of doing anything, we'll just freeze and wait, and that's a good way to start, but God is not always going to have you wait. You know there's a song that talks about if you go to the left, I'll go to the left. If you go to the right, I'll go to the right, I'm going to jump, jump, jump, jump in the river. So it's like God's not always going to be standing still.
Speaker 1:And so when he moves, we should be moving with him, and so it's important for us to, instead of being afraid to hear God incorrectly, we should just go ahead and power through it. If we're wrong, it's going to be okay. And just learning that it's going to be okay. Even if we fail, it's going to turn out for God's glory, because guess what he's gracious he gives us grace. And guess what he's gracious? He gives us grace. And guess what? Ultimately, we're not there to please people, and if it's like, if it feels wrong, it's okay, it's going to be okay. And for us humans, we like to be perfect, or at least appear perfect, or to be as close to perfection as we can, and we don't give ourselves grace like God does.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so anyway, that's my little spiel beforehand. Well, I think you had kind of a good format here and that is to just start off with more focus.
Speaker 2:Your initial my initial well my initial thought is, as you were speaking, I was just thinking of if you think of God being like a good father um, who isn't like us. He's perfect in every way. He only knows how to give good gifts, and I think of how he is with us and I think there's a real balance, and so I think there's this part of you that wants to be so close to him that you listen for his voice and you want to follow his lead, and you will follow his lead if you're close to him, just like a child.
Speaker 2:You know like there's some funny memes about kids who curse because they've heard their father do it. Could be their mother too, but their parent do it. Their father is where you get identity and so they just do it. So if you're close to him, you're going to do what he says and you're going to move where he's moving. You're going to do what he says and you're going to move where he's moving. You're going to move to the left when he moves to the left. You're going to move to the right when he moves to the right.
Speaker 2:And then I think, as we get older, it's like the natural progression where there's there's some individuation that happens. Now you never want to get like with your parents. You always want to have relationship and you never want to disrespect them or not. It wouldn't be to your benefit especially if they're parents who are close to Jesus themselves not to listen to their wisdom and to push that away. It's not like you move away and then you never speak to them again. You should still have this close relationship Well, even more so with God.
Speaker 2:There's so many parts of God. He's not only your father. He's your best friend, yeah, and he's your counselor and your guide. So there's another element where you want to stay close and I think there's free will. So I think, as you get older in your relationship with the Lord, it's not like you have to, it's like you have your heart surrendered to him. But I think the free will that he values so highly comes into play where it's like what do you want to do and let's have you walk. It's like the toddler that's walking.
Speaker 1:You know, if they fall, it's okay. That's a good point actually that I didn't think about.
Speaker 2:Their muscles aren't used to walking and they're at least trying to follow and trying to walk to that other parent and you don't curse them. A good parent, a good father, does not curse them when they fall. They're like, yay, they're cheering them on. You tried, you tried to do this. You tried to listen to my voice and come to me.
Speaker 2:And even more as you get older. It's not like we have this codependent relationship, even though we are completely dependent on him codependent relationship even though we are completely dependent on him. But he also wants us to move forward and walk out our destiny and not always be, like you know, afraid to step out because, because of an insecurity, like we're going to fail. He wants us to step out and he wants us to become the person, the individual that he created us to be. So those are my initial thoughts.
Speaker 1:Well, that's good. Yeah, I didn't think about the whole free will thing, and I think that's a great point, like let's just use the same example that I use, and that's like we're in worship and now we're at a quiet moment where we're just waiting. Yeah, and it's like maybe sometimes that God's asking us and he was not speaking to us, he's just asked. Well, maybe he's asking us in that silence of what do you want to do? Where do you want to go?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And because the Holy Spirit worships with us. On my notes I actually have this as a point and it's the Lord, the Holy Spirit's inside of us. He wants to worship alongside us.
Speaker 2:When we worship.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's probably better if I just read it or you read it. Do you want?
Speaker 2:to read it Go ahead.
Speaker 1:But I wrote it on here because I knew I'd forget if I didn't, but we hear it from. When we hear God, when we worship, we are worshiping. Okay, let me read this again when we hear God, when we worship, we are worshiping God with the Holy Spirit inside of us. Having the Holy Spirit inside of us allows us to supersede our current level of worship, and so when we allow god to pretty much use us and ask us what we want to do, it creates this new song, and that's where that I believe it's the uh halal sound, yes, is where god infiltrates the worship yeah and it's.
Speaker 1:it's where it's no longer just us playing a, it's now God using our music and infiltrating it and making it his own to worship him. It's kind of this weird thing. It's like an artist is painting but then someone else comes up behind and puts like a splatter of paint on it and it makes it much better. You know what I'm saying. It's like that's exactly what he's doing with our praise. I like that we're flowing with the analogies, kind of doing it today, yeah.
Speaker 1:But, the first question today, like I have written down, is why is it important to hear God's voice in worship? It's kind of very broad, obviously, but Did you have an answer? Go ahead and answer, and I'll answer after you.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean gosh, it's everything to hear.
Speaker 2:God's voice in worship. Because you know it's that whole process of you know seeking Him and finding Him and Him hiding revelation and us finding you know the glory of finding that revelation and discovery. And like I don't know he, he's everything. And I even think about an inner healing ministry, the type that I, one of the types of inner modes of inner healing that we do. It is really connected to what God says, and when God says something, you know I could say the same thing to the person. Let's say, like in a counseling session, which counseling and therapy is very important. But when God says it to you, it's like, oh my goodness yeah and it just, it hits you in a way.
Speaker 1:So God's voice, is so much better, isn't it everything?
Speaker 2:it's. It's so important because it's what we long for, we. We need direction, we need encouragement, we need his strength in our weakness. We need you know, we need direction, we need the love we need to have the part of repentance. You know all that stuff.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I also think. For me it's like it gives you confirmation that you're listening correctly, when you hear God's voice and you know it's his voice.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's just like oh, I know, I'm flowing in the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 2:I know that what I'm doing is what God wants for this moment, and oftentimes you'll find that if we are together in the unity of the spirit, through the bond of peace, we're different but united and we follow one God, one father, one spirit of us all. So if we're in connection with Him and we're abiding in Him and we hear His voice, there may be a different shade of what is said but it's going to be along the same.
Speaker 1:It's the same God, everywhere.
Speaker 2:It's the same God speaking the same thing to all of us who are seeking Him out in that moment. So, like even on a worship team, you're going to hear his voice and move with him and and just like you're gonna maybe sing a different note and I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna sing a different note and we're gonna come together in a beautiful harmony. Yeah, and it's, it's the same thing, but it's, it's all in the same key yeah because he's one god Father, one Spirit of us all 100%.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it unifies us too.
Speaker 1:Totally, and so it's hearing God's voice. Also, I believe it just allows us to know Like I believe I already said this, but it allows us to know that we're on the right page, and also it allows us to just do what we really just came to do, and that's worship God. Do what we really just came to do, and that's worship god, and it allows us to like to know in our minds and our hearts that we're worshiping god, um, to the fullest of our ability, at least at the moment, and so when the holy spirit infiltrates, it's awesome yeah, the next question that you had on here is what aspects of worship shift when we hear god correctly.
Speaker 2:And then there's there's a secondary incorrectly. So let's start with correctly what shifts when we hear god's voice correctly?
Speaker 1:well, the obvious one is the presence. You can feel it in the atmosphere, especially when, like you're, like, let's say, it's like electric, it is like you ever get like goosebumps in worship there's a couple like people can blame down the air, like feel the air condition go off and it's like all right. I got goosebumps now because it's cold, but then there's sometimes where it's like nothing's happening, it's just okay. Just chills down my arm, it's like the holy spirit's coming into the room yeah and it's because your sense is acknowledging, but we don't like.
Speaker 1:He's not in the physical realm but he affects the physical.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so yeah. So I would say the first one is in the atmosphere of the room, like it shifts for not just the worshiping but also for the congregation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think in a very natural way, what you hear, what you sense happening, what happens in the supernatural exhibits itself in the natural and that you have the signs, the wonders, the miracles, people getting healed, people getting set free, people repenting, people getting saved.
Speaker 2:Did I say that already? People who are just in awe of who God is, seeing who God is and just moved. And I think, when you follow God's voice, and then I think the gifts are allowed to flow freely and we have the gifts for the edification of the body. So we need tongues and interpretation, we need the prophetic, we need exhortation, we need discernment, we need knowledge, we need wisdom. We need all these things because those are gifts from god. It's not that we, that's not the end. All be all. The end, all be all, is what we're doing with him, is worshiping him and being with him, and it's him. But he gave us these gifts so that we could be built up, because we live in this age where we are longing for God and we're caught in this in-between where we do have assignments and destiny for the Lord and there's so much warfare happening around us. So we need the edification that God gives through those gifts. So that's so. That's that's I mean.
Speaker 2:There's so much that happens yeah when you're hearing the voice correctly of god. Yeah, so much like it's almost impossible to like. It's like the sky is the limit for what can happen when you hear the voice of god yeah your destiny comes into it.
Speaker 1:I mean alignment, it just there's so much I would also like to say unity, uh, is very prevalent when, when we're following the voice of the holy spirit because there's not somebody asking on the worship team, we're on the, on the congregation. This is what we're supposed to be? It's like no, we just know that we're on.
Speaker 2:You all know, you all sense it and you just kind of flow and go and it's wonderful.
Speaker 1:I don't know the only way I can explain it is like it practically is like you know how, when you're playing worship songs, or some of you playing worship songs, or you're in the crowd and you're listening and worshiping with the band and it's just like at one point during the worship time there's like a chord that's hit and it's just like you know this is where we're supposed to be right now.
Speaker 1:Right, it's just like that's when you're worshiping and the worship team is listening to the Holy Spirit. You're listening to the Holy Spirit. You're listening to the Holy Spirit in your worship, because the congregation is just as much a part of the worship team. We're leading worship, sure, but you guys are just as big of a part.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because we're not worshiping like. We're obviously not worshiping for you guys, but we're giving you a place to jump off and worship God as well with us.
Speaker 2:I think it. Also, when you hear the voice of God correctly, it allows you to not waste your energy on ineffective warfare, like there can be warfare that happens and you don't have to feel the exertion of it, because you're hearing his voice and you're hitting the bullseye and you're doing it in his strength and his direction. No you're good. Oh, I don't know whose that is. Might be hers.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're good.
Speaker 2:So what would be the, what are the aspects of worship that shift when we hear God's voice incorrectly?
Speaker 1:I mean I wouldn't. It's not going to be the opposite, Like if you listen to God incorrectly, God's not just going to be like all right, shut everything down. Like turn off the sound system, You're done, Cause that's not how it works. I think as humans, that's definitely what we think Like. There's been times where we're in worship practice and a song just doesn't feel right.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And just like, okay, we're just gonna scrap it completely and it's just like, wait, hold on, god might be speaking here. It's just what on this song does he want to point out? You know what does he want to focus on? Right because we might have focused on the, the wrong thing, like we're trying to focus on the verses, and it's when god's saying no, this chorus.
Speaker 1:I need you guys to play the chorus I don't need you to play the verses, and so it's like you can feel the atmosphere. I mean, I like to put out an atmosphere, but it's just like there's just the unity. Sometimes things just won't feel together. You know, you'll feel like you're battling when you're not listening to the Holy Spirit, because there's not that unity that comes with listening to the Holy Spirit, because you guys are all trying to figure out what the Holy Spirit is saying and some people might be on and some people might be off, and so there's this discord that happens between you guys, and so it's you guys aren't seeing eye to eye, and I would say most of the time, like at least for new creation, we're pretty close to like being on point quite a bit of the time, but then there's times where it's like we miss it and we're not off by much.
Speaker 1:We're singing the song that god wants to sing, but we're not focusing on the right part, or yeah we're putting in spontaneous worship time in the wrong spot or we're doing too much spontaneous when god's saying no, I need you guys to repeat this chorus 10, 12 times. But we're not going to do it because we think it's too much, the congregation's not going to like it. Because we think it's too much, the congregation is not going to like it, yeah. And so I would also say, um, I'll, I'll probably save it till after you give your answer, and so, yeah, go.
Speaker 2:Okay, um, are you sure? Because I think maybe it might take us in a different direction. If you don't say, what? If I say what I'm?
Speaker 1:saying Okay, well, I'll say, it's not so much that we hear him incorrectly, it's also just sometimes we have self-doubt and we have ignorance to what God is telling us to do. And I think a lot of the time I myself included, like there's so many times where I'm like God, is that really you saying that? And so I'm not going to do it, because I don't think it's you. God wouldn't tell me to do this chorus seven times in a row.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's like he probably would like. There's a. There's a chorus like it's part of the. I forget which song is the name above all names? Yeah um it's where they just sing that chorus over and over and over and it's like it's so good I could sing that you know they were flowing in something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was so they were flowing in something it's like over and over it's like most people, if we were to do that in church like at new creation. We've only done that for us maybe three times in a row and I almost feel like the anointing is saying let's do it more, because it's like there's no other higher name, like there's nothing else to say.
Speaker 1:We should just be saying that, yeah, it's just like there's an ignorance in um. I don't think we're necessarily hearing him incorrectly. I think it's're not. We don't know the voice of God, Right as well as we at least. Well, I guess we should say it's not that we don't know, it's just we have a hard time deciphering. If that's our own, Unless you're saying do it over and over again because it's easier or it's harder, or it's what we want to do, or I don't know. There's a lot of different aspects to it.
Speaker 2:But there's a couple of things. You have me thinking a lot as you're speaking.
Speaker 2:I think I want to, so that I have three thoughts just on what you all that you just talked about, and I'll go with my middle thought first, which is I think it is very debilitating. It is very debilitating and I've seen myself and I've seen others get stuck in immobility when we are God, is this you, god, is this not you? I have seen this happen over and over. Where there is an over caution, that happens and part of that is because I think we, like in some of the, the tribe that we run, not just at our, but in just the tribe of people that we run, there is so many people, there are many people who are walking in their gifts, and so you know, like not everybody can speak or move or sing or play. We have so many that can.
Speaker 2:So there is an importance to hearing from the Lord, but I think at some points it becomes. It becomes, um, like I said, debilitating, and we get stuck, like we're like, can't move, I don't know, I don't, and then maybe you had something to release that needed to be released. It doesn't get released, and then it, you know, either it just fizzles out or somebody else takes it up and runs with something, and it's not going to be the same as if you released it, because we all have that prism through which the Lord shines through, so it looks a little bit different, so it still works out right, even if you made a mistake, because you were afraid, because you were in a codependent relationship that was unhealthy with the Lord, where you felt like I can't move. But there's all these, there's so many factors too. You're dealing with, not just your own inner stuff.
Speaker 2:You know, sometimes we feel when we feel the crowd, for instance like oh, they're not responding, yeah.
Speaker 2:They're not I. That happens to me all the time. I'm like, especially when we're introducing new songs that we like, we have, we we're so passionate about, but the audience doesn't know as well. Or we do go to repeat it and they're just like yeah, they're not used to singing it ten times. So yeah, it's, they're gonna. They're gonna be some of them. I need them. Be mad or not like it, that's okay. Not everybody has to like it. So I think that that's something that we have to think about.
Speaker 1:And then I think yeah, on that point really quick. Yeah, if I say something with you yeah, I have two other points awesome. So, like a lot of the time, it's like we're not there to worship the people, and so if we feel like we're getting like the judgment is coming from the people or we're trying to listen to, there's many voices coming into our head at once. You know it's the voice of the people, voice of god, our own voice.
Speaker 1:We've got to decipher the voice of the enemy and so we got to decipher all these voices and we need to pick out what you're in the moment.
Speaker 1:If yes, it's hard pertains to worship and and actually actively helping lead worship you're in the moment oh yeah, and you're trying to think of this, you don't have a lot of time no, and that's where preparation can kind of help, a lot like practice time and having in like intercession, like intercessing and your session, oh my goodness, during prayer, I mean, I mean during freaking practice, sorry guys, um, it's just like that. It's like having preparation can kind of ease that. But also, like you're saying, it is in the moment, you got these like four or five, six, seven, eight different voices. They have to decipher the holy spirit because you're not there to worship the people, you're here to worship God and minister to the Lord.
Speaker 2:And there's a careful balance in that too, because I think we also that's a sidebar, but I think we also do have to be sensitive to the needs of the body. I think there's a balance with that.
Speaker 2:You get far on one side, you get far on the um less zeal from the audience, so to speak, the audience or even the other members on the team, to mean that you stepped out and it was wrong. And it may not have been, it's just uncomfortable for them. And we have to be I'm preaching to myself in all aspects of life, we have to be okay with the uncomfortable and the awkward we do Because that's where growth, when you're growing and changing, it feels uncomfortable.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely when you're getting more healthy, it feels uncomfortable, so it applies to this as well. The other thing I was going to say is I was just going to use an example of when I did step out incorrectly. Going to say is I was just going to use an example of when I did step out incorrectly and I I so I have. I think I talked about this on other other podcasts and blogs and stuff like that but just I was. I was dealing with something inside and I was a mess on stage. I was crying. You don't remember this, but for me it was very memorable.
Speaker 2:And I know our pastor worship pastor, remembers it, um, but I I ended up opting not to sing a song and then I just opted to sing this little vamp piece, um, and I ended up totally coming in on it in the middle. The instrumentalist didn't know where I was going, nobody knew where I was going, but I just moved and sang it and it totally ruined the mood. It really 100% did. Now, people who were sitting in the audience may not have picked up on it, but I know I saw our pastor look at me like, oh okay, we're going here and it was incorrect. I know here and it was incorrect. I know in my spirit it was incorrect. I was moving from a place that wasn't like it wasn't about. It was more of a get me off the stage.
Speaker 2:I want to go to the bathroom and cry my eyeballs out with nobody and I just want to get off the stage. And I just was moving out of anxiety and triggered and I was my emotions had emotions were now unmanageable, they had become totally unmanageable, and so that's what happened Totally.
Speaker 1:That makes sense.
Speaker 2:As soon as I did it, I was like, oh, but you know what happened out of that? Even though that was incorrect, what happened was I didn't get chastised by my leadership. It actually is making me a little emotional. I actually got asked Lisa, what, what's happening with you, like what happened? And I had ended up having a conversation with her for an hour another day and I got to tell her how I got to that place, cause I'm just walking it out new with the team a little bit. It's newer in relationship to me being on the worship team and so I was able to share that with her, which was a big step for me for a lot of reasons and I got to grow through that. And so I think, I think, and I have another, I have another.
Speaker 2:Marilyn Hickey is. It doesn't matter if you like her, you don't like her, but she moved years ago. Probably the older generations will know who she is, big into faith and stuff. Well, she always talked about how, when she and I probably have said this on another one of our podcasts, but she said when she was just learning how to walk in the prophetic it might have been tongues and interpretation something she stood up and she gave a word and her pastor told her that wasn't a word, that wasn't right and she was incorrect and she realized that. But he did not chastise her. He said you've got to step out.
Speaker 2:If you don't step out, you'll never step out.
Speaker 2:So whether it's that you're you, you know, let's say you did move incorrectly or whether it's that you're feeling that destabilizing, I can't do anything. I'm stuck, immobilized because you're trying to hear she, she learned from that. She learned how, what, what, what is the voice of the lord and when, and all those kinds of things. And her leadership handled it so well in that they didn't chastise her, they just told her hey, you know. And she, you got to step out and you're like that baby that's got those wobbly feet and you're going to fall. Sometimes it's different from a heart that's coming from a place of self-centeredness and you, you know, trying to be the center of attention or trying to disrupt the, the room or that kind of a thing, when your heart is close to god and you are seeking his voice. Yeah, it's, it's okay and you'll be okay. You know, if it's a repeated pattern, then it'll have to be addressed in a different way, like what's happening and there's even growth on that, yeah, and there's good
Speaker 1:that comes from that so this all requires an open heart and open mind as well, though like you have to be willing to grow and to learn to, to want and want to learn yeah to how to hear the voice of god because unfortunately, with the world we live in, most of us aren't like like jesus, where we grew up, hearing the voice of god so clearly. You know I'm saying yeah we have to work towards it. We have to read his word, we have to get into his presence, we have to practice stepping out and if we're wrong, okay, that's what did we do wrong and what do I need to change?
Speaker 1:what lens do I need to put?
Speaker 2:take off and put on, and so it's like we gotta it's, it's a process, 100% yeah and so it.
Speaker 1:So failure is just so important, yeah, and so the next thing that I wanted to talk about is sorry, what are the positives of failure in listening to God's voice? So when we fail, what are the positives when we miss it?
Speaker 2:And some of those are. What I was saying was you have an opportunity for growth. You have an opportunity to know more firmly when it is. But yeah, it isn't the lord so that next time you don't have to go through this maybe long drawn out process. Is it the lord? Is it the lord you're like? No, I know that's not the lord, um, and I do. I do have to say you have to be careful that you don't use your incorrect um hearing to support your reasons for why you shouldn't speak in the future.
Speaker 2:No, that would be, the opposite that would be the enemy trying to bring condemnation on you. No, it should instead show you okay, this is what happened inside of me. This is what it feels like.
Speaker 1:We get hyperjudgmental about ourselves in worship, especially, I think, and also when people are rolling out in the prophetic or they're doing street ministry. It's like, oh, did I hear from the Lord?
Speaker 1:Like this guy's going to be healed today, but he didn't stand up and get healed today. It's like maybe it wasn't the Lord, but God's going to heal him in other ways, most likely. God never wants to see his children hurting. So are you wrong in the sense that God wants to heal him? No, absolutely not. Yeah, did you hear wrong? And what god is wanting to do right now?
Speaker 2:maybe, yeah, maybe possible and.
Speaker 1:But it's like some of the positives, like, are you saying? Like, how you're saying, it's like it's tuning our radar to how to read god better, yeah, and it's like the more voices that we can knock out or just know that that's not the voice of god, it's it makes it much easier to hear, because it's like, okay, that's not god, they can just tune it out, yeah, and then you can. When you're doing your day-to-day life, it's just like you don't have to hear that voice. You get to hear the voice of God better. Um, there's a game I forget what it's called, but it's like where you have all these pictures of people and you ask the other person it's like, is he have blonde hair? You, if it's a, you've knocked down all the people with blonde hair. You're nailing down who it's not, and then you get to the portion of who it is, and then that's how you win. And so it's like that when you're learning how to hear the voice of God.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think also you have the opportunity. One of the things that failure opens you up to is the ability to receive love in ways that maybe you haven't. Let's say, you had a parent or a friend, or you've had another situation with another worship team, or maybe you were in the secular world and now you're in the worship world and it gives you the opportunity to receive love in ways and you know for you to love yourself, even when you make mistakes. I think it also gives you the opportunity to overcome a performance, an entertainment standard. Instead, you realize it's not about that. It's about what Jesus did. It's always back to what Jesus did. It really isn't about what you do or what you're doing, what you're going to do. It's about what Jesus did. It really isn't about what you do or what you're doing, what you're going to do. It's about what Jesus did.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it just allows you to understand that more and more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we get sorry, keep going. No, go ahead. I was going to say it deepens our relationship with three people, and that's one with God, one with ourself and then another with other people, the people around us. Yeah, because when, at least if it's a healthy situation, obviously. If it's not, then that's another situation and it exposes the unhealth for what it is, which is in and of itself a blessing right, like if you don't want to be stuck in an unhealthy place, I mean if you don't know about it, and then you do something wrong and it exposes its unhealth. It's better because you get to address it or you get to walk away from it and ask God what do you want to take, what do you want to do with it?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So yeah, I think too, like, yeah, that's really good, josiah, that's a very good point. Um, I also think it. It reveals things about you. It gives you the option to learn things about yourself that you didn't know. Like, maybe you don't have the capacity for this, or maybe you you need a break.
Speaker 1:Or, you know, maybe you don't love this, maybe it's a new season, I don't know you know, but it can reveal a myriad of things the thing that so I was driving here before we're recording this and it was one of the things that came up to my mind is that it's no longer the old testament, where they had one person who heard from god. You know, I'm saying where he heard from god. Yeah, you know what I'm saying when he heard from God.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Hebrews talks all about that.
Speaker 1:And it's now, yeah, and so it's now the Holy Spirit inside of us, talking to us, and it's different because we don't. We're not like the prophet that spent 24 hours of his day in the presence of the Lord, hearing his voice, getting tuned to it and pretty pretty much having this almost like a father and son, but like a teacher and a student relationship with the Lord. A.
Speaker 2:Padawan yeah.
Speaker 1:We have a life and we have things that are pulling us in every which direction. We're not like the Levites, the tribe of it's the tribe of Levi, where it's like we're having to we're literally told and uh consecrated, and we're, that's literally. Our entire job is just worship grapes no, you can't touch grapes. You can't drink anything fermented. The nazirite yeah, and so it's like well, yeah, the nazirite levite, yeah but you're responsible for the worshiping of the lord.
Speaker 1:You're everything within the temple ministering to the lord, and these are all different sects of the. The tribe of leave the levites, um, but it's like we're having to live life. We're having to just because culture is so. It's especially here in america. It's just so different from what it is back then. The bible is not incorrect, like the culture is not like it's not saying conform the bible to what the culture is. But we're supposed to learn and learn. How do we get the bible into our culture? Yeah, and how do we hear god's voice, even though we have to do all these things?
Speaker 1:right, we're pulled in every which direction. You know I'm saying yeah, and so when we fail, it helps us to hear god's voice better, because it's like, oh, that's not my, my, uh, my economist voice talking to me well, and I think, while we're busy and we're not, we're not living this like um physically, our job and our ministry and everything is just staying in the tent with the lord.
Speaker 2:But as we go about our day, we live in the tent with the Lord because actually he lives in this tent that we have. So he's with us, so it's so he indwells us, so there can be this inner dialogue. There can be this, this inner work, taking place with you at all times, because the high priest now lives inside of you.
Speaker 2:So he's constantly teaching you he's if you are willing to learn, you have to be willing to, in your heart the posture of your heart, be sitting at his feet and being his Padawan, so to speak.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:The next question you have on here, if you're done with that, unless you're not is does God lose trust in us if we fail to hear his voice?
Speaker 1:This is huge, and this is because I think a lot of people find themselves disqualified when they have failed twice, three times. It's like all right, lord, you're not using me and I'm done. I don't want to try to keep hearing your voice because it's too hard, or it's I just. I feel like you've lost faith in me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of that comes from ourself, because we lose faith in ourself. But ultimately we think God is human and we put him through our human lens and think that he's got the same ideals. We've got three strikes and you're out. But unfortunately God I mean fortunately for us God's not like that.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Where he's going to give us as many tries as it takes for us to hear his voice.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:As long as we're learning like there is grace.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there is a misuse of grace. That happens, but very few of us actually misuse God's grace because we're wanting to become more like Him, we're wanting to love Him better, we're wanting to worship Him to the best of our ability, and it's God gives us grace, and so, no, god does not lose trust in us.
Speaker 2:Right. Yeah, god trusts us, but he also is willing to let us fail to help us as well. I mean, I've said this before, but of course, a lot of the things are going to come up again, and this is one of the things I did learn from Ray Light and some of his material is that again, the emphasis is not on what we do right or wrong. Of course, we want to aim, to obey and to do right in His eyes, but he doesn't lose trust in us because we're unpunishable. He did it through the cross and it's all about what he did on the cross. It's not our own merit and it's not he knows.
Speaker 2:If he looked at the disciples in the area of faith and said, oh, you have little faith, I thought you would know this by now, but we hear it through our filter. Oh, I thought you would know this by now. When I don't think that's the tone that Jesus had with them. And I think if the disciples who saw Jesus walk with Jesus did he lose trust in them? No, he didn't. They went on to minister and they went to the death for Jesus. And so he doesn't lose trust in you because he knows you. He knows he's acquainted with every temptation, he knows what it is to be a man and he knows that he wants to be your strength and your weakness.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so and so, and he knows that you need Him and he knows that he already did it on the cross. So, he's not gonna lose trust in you. He never loses trust in you because it all boils down to Him. It's about Him. He never loses trust in you because it all boils down to him.
Speaker 1:It's about him. Why would he send his son to die on the cross if he's just going to turn around and lose trust in you and turn his back on you later? He would have never done that, yeah. And so don't discount the cross, don't re-crucify Jesus, as some people put it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's not about you. No, that's where it's not about you. No, that's where it comes down, to right he doesn't lose trust in you, because it's not about you, it's about him.
Speaker 1:Exactly. We're not here to worship people, we're not here to worship ourselves, we're not here to glorify man, we're here to glorify God.
Speaker 2:Yes, you can distrust yourself, but he doesn't not trust you.
Speaker 1:No, so that's my opinion. As we finish, do you want to just quickly pray for people's hearts, as they have? Like I'm going to say with confidence that everybody has failed and listened to the voice of God, including myself, because nobody is perfect. Nobody is like Jesus.
Speaker 2:I do want to say, I do want to put out there three things for the worship leader I want to encourage you to create and think about ways that you can foster more an environment in which people can step out. That's good, and I encourage you to then have a system for when they do well, to encourage them and when they do maybe hear God wrong, to push into them and to not condemn them and not to disqualify them, knowing that Jesus doesn't disqualify them.
Speaker 2:to call them higher, and he's our leader, um, but how to call them higher and to even, you know, say, hey, what's going on? Like that kind of a thing, and to, um, when you see somebody who's stuck on your team or whatever, to encourage them to come out like to walk in the giftings that God's given them. So I want to encourage you to do that for the person who is the, the, the, the person ministering yourself. I want to encourage you that, even if it feels uncomfortable, even if you feel the audience like maybe not going with you or you're unsure or whatever, step out.
Speaker 2:I did this just a few at a work, my first worship night on the team with new creation church, and I literally started this thing where I'm like turning around and dancing and I'm like, oh my gosh, what am I doing?
Speaker 2:It feels like not my DNA, it feels like I could be out of step here again, like not hearing the voice of God. And I did it anyway, um, because it was different than the last time. I had learned from that last time with this team, what that felt like, but it still felt like I don't know about this God, but I did it anyway, and I mean the night was almost over and then it led to open the door for a whole like another level of prophetic, and people started. They had people come up and they were singing these songs and different things and it was amazing. And so I know god did something in that moment and I wasn't quite sure. So if you are that person who is struggling with feeling unsure, I just encourage you to step out and and do it. You know we're going to be sensitive to the lord, but just don't stay in that stuck place just try things and learn from them and be uncomfortable, and I want to encourage the audience.
Speaker 2:Audience, so to speak. But if you know congregation people that are worshiping yeah, if you're not in the position of leading in a certain atmosphere, or or this week you're not whatever, um, just when you, you know sense to do something, you do it from your seat. And when you see the, don't even do it from your seat, go up to the altar. Feel free to go up to the altar. You know sense to do something, you do it from your seat.
Speaker 1:And when you see the, don't even do it from your seat. Go up to the altar.
Speaker 2:Feel free to go up to the altar, you know and when you see if you see something different happening, like we are singing your readers are singing something 10 times and it's very uncomfortable, or they sing in a different language or they're doing a different style instead of just putting up those resistance to to that happening because it feels uncomfortable and it's not you or it's whatever, just ask the Lord to give you his perspective of it and ask the Lord to help you to engage in the way that um is comfortable for you and to to also just appreciate that people are stepping out and see where the Lord wants to take.
Speaker 2:You See what more he's revealing um through his voice in this way. So those are three, I would say, admonitions for people that I would like to put out there, and I don't know if you want me to pray, cause I've been talking quite a bit, or if you want to pray.
Speaker 1:No, go for it. You're the inner healer person I want. I would just feel like you.
Speaker 2:apparently you are too yes.
Speaker 1:Well, we'll see. But um, Just one people to you to pray for people to just like, maybe Just if they've lost us in himself from failing, or failing what they would say is too much during worship or Not hearing the voice of God correctly. Yeah or maybe thinking that they haven't heard the God correctly.
Speaker 2:Yeah okay.
Speaker 2:So, god, I just come to you right now and I just want to pray for that person or people who have felt like they failed miserably and now God doesn't trust them. Lord, I just pray that they would ask you the question God, have I failed you? Do you not trust me anymore? And then just listen for the voice of the question, god, have I failed you? Do you not trust me anymore? And then just listen for the voice of the Lord, what he has to say.
Speaker 2:I pray, lord, god, that they would forgive themselves for stepping out wrongly and just release them from every judgment that they may be making against themselves that they think disqualifies them. And I just plead the blood of Jesus over their ears and the voice of the accusers. I say that his voice can no longer penetrate the eardrums and the mind. In Jesus' name, I thank you that when those thoughts come in, they'll realize that is not a good father. A good father does not chastise, and if they think a good father does, then I would. I would encourage them to to maybe look at if they are misplacing their experiences with people in their lives, father figures in their lives onto you, because that's not who you are. Before Jesus did anything you said. I am pleased. This is my son and so I just thank you that you heal that place in them.
Speaker 2:God, that is partnering with a lie, that they are no longer worthy of standing in the position of hearing your voice and from moving according to your voice. And, god, I just pray that you would help them be okay. We got to be okay. We got to be okay with when we're truly trying to be close to you, I mean to walk in communion with your spirit. We have to be okay with our wobbly legs giving out and us falling down and not getting it right. I mean, I don't get it right all the time and so I don't deliberately do that, but I learn from it each time and I look into myself and investigate and discover things, and so I just pray for healing in this part of their heart, for the blood of Jesus to just surround them and to just awaken their hearts again. In Jesus' name.
Speaker 1:Amen, amen. We'll talk to you guys later no-transcript.
