Open Waters Podcast
This podcast is all about what God is doing in Utah through the church, and through the ministry of Open Waters Worship. If you don't know who we are, we are a worship ministry in the heart of Salt Lake City, Utah who's reason for being is JESUS. We want all people to have GROWTH, not only in relationship with our King, but with the people around us as well. We also want people to cultivate a deep and pure INTIMACY with God, and from that intimacy a FREEDOM to be who we are called to be; and to top it off we want the body of Christ to radiate UNITY. The body as a whole can accomplish so much more than one person alone. So we want to ask you, are you ready to join us in an effort to unify the body, and grow in relationship? Are you ready for what true intimacy with the King looks like? If so, come give us a listen! We'd love to hear your feedback as well. Tell us your thoughts and if you have a question feel free to reach out to us! We love you and pray for an overflowing in all avenues of your life <3
Open Waters Podcast
45: Knowing What We Do ~ The Seven Hebrew Words For Praise Pt. 3
Welcome to this weeks podcast episode, where an earring decides to fly solo right as we're unpacking the powerful Hebrew words for praise, 'Shabach' and 'Zamar.' Embark with us on a lively journey into these expressions of worship, where loud exuberance and the strumming of instruments take center stage, drawing parallels to an archer's focused intent. We even stir up the debate on Christian perspectives regarding musical instruments in worship - because let's face it, not every hymn needs an organ, right?
With Josiah's wisdom gracing our conversation, we invite you into an honest reflection of what true praise looks like within various church atmospheres. It's not about the spectacle, but aligning with the Holy Spirit's presence. And because life isn't all high notes, we navigate through the valleys of divine discipline, embracing its refining fire. So, get ready to be inspired to infuse your worship with authenticity and to face adversity with a heart of gratitude. Share in our anticipation for the revealing of the final two words in our praise series, and don't forget to drop your thoughts and topic suggestions - let's keep this spiritual exchange vibrant and meaningful!
Open Waters Family,
Just wanted to say welcome, and thank you for joining us! We love you and hope you know that God loves you so so so much!
Here at Open Waters Worship ( OWW ) we long for an intimacy, and hunger for God. Where a people are hungry and fully in love with God, that is where revival happens. REVIVAL IS COMING!!!
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You are declaring the victory and the triumph of God and worshiping God, because you are commending lauding holy, and you're just acknowledging who he is and what he's done and just giving him glory and praise.
Speaker 2:Well, welcome guys. Your earring just fell out.
Speaker 1:Welcome to episode 45 of the Amorados podcast Fixing my earring that just fell out right as you pressed record as soon as I pressed it.
Speaker 2:for some reason it came out. That's crazy, oh well.
Speaker 1:Welcome to Open Waters Worship Podcast number 45. Four, five, yeah, pretty cool guys, four five, anyway, four five.
Speaker 2:So how are you doing? I'm doing good.
Speaker 1:How are you doing? I'm doing good. How are?
Speaker 2:you doing, doing good. Life goes on. It's snowing.
Speaker 1:Life goes on. We had snow. Yes, we did. We had snow. The other day it was 75 degrees and the next day it was 35 degrees and we had snow.
Speaker 2:That's nuts May 7th. It was, I think, may 7th.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, may 6th. No May 6th Anyway, and just fun fact, we live in Utah and I found out that. I looked it up just for giggles. What is the latest it's ever snowed in Utah July? It was in July. That's crazy.
Speaker 2:So it's nothing new.
Speaker 1:I guess I really hope we don't have snow in July.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't mind it. He honestly kills. He honestly kills me in July.
Speaker 1:So Shut your mouth, Shut your face right now.
Speaker 2:So I'd rather just not be like super hot yeah.
Speaker 1:If it snows, it is what it is.
Speaker 2:No, thank you, but anyway.
Speaker 1:What's our topic today?
Speaker 2:Josiah, drum roll, it's the same thing that we've been doing this entire time I'm just kidding, not the entire time, but we're going to continue. A three-, a third podcast about this, three out of four-part series, and so today is number three of that four-part series, as I literally just said that twice in a row, anyway. So the two words today are Shabak and I mean, yeah, it's Shabak and Zamar.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And just kind of a brief overview, the reason we're doing this series is because it's we've found out the importance of knowing why we do what we do, and the importance of it just drives us deeper in like community with god, each other. We can kind of link arms with more like what we're actually doing. You know what I'm saying? It's just if an archer knows why he's shooting an arrow, he can shoot it with purpose type of deal, and so I'd rather shoot with purpose than to just do it, because I it's what we do yeah, and so totally it just makes more sense when you know what you're doing.
Speaker 1:Yep and so it's been pretty interesting just learning about yeah what have you thought about so far? I just think it's been. I've been really thinking about it as I do worship and praise. Yeah it's like come up for me. It's been really cool.
Speaker 2:So the words that we've gone through up till this point are what?
Speaker 1:Oh, come on, Tota.
Speaker 2:I know that okay, so you got Barack.
Speaker 1:Hey Tota.
Speaker 2:Tota Yada. Now we've got today, which is we're gonna, which is we're going to Shabbat, we've got Zamar and Shabbat.
Speaker 1:I think we're starting with Zamar right.
Speaker 2:Yes, man, we are Okay. So what is?
Speaker 1:Zamar.
Speaker 2:Zamar is essentially touching of the instruments, and that means literally to play an instrument, or it can also mean singing in the accompaniment or whatever it is, I don't know, singing with an accompanying. Oh, my goodness, my English today.
Speaker 1:Truly.
Speaker 2:I did not do. My vocal warm-ups Is with an instrument.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's mostly meeting with an instrument, but it looks like it's not excluding singing. What I really think about this, josiah, that's kind of cool, true, is that? Well, there's many elements to this that are cool, but there are several sects of religions in christianity even that believe that instruments are not okay interesting really.
Speaker 2:I do not know that yeah, there are some denominations. I don't think that they're okay to be cultish.
Speaker 1:Some of them. Forgive us if that's you, but, um, there are some that believe that Denominations I don't think they can kind of be cultish. Some of them Forgive us if that's you, but there are people who believe that it's not biblical and I think that's very interesting, since it talks about it in the Bible and one of the commentaries yeah, the commentary from the book that we're using, which you have the book.
Speaker 1:Why don't you show them what the book is? For those of you that are not looking on YouTube, it's Prophetic Worship by Vivian Hibbard.
Speaker 2:Yes, feel free to check it out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she says in there that this is a musical term. It's used exclusively in poetry, most often in the book of Psalms, always used for reference to instrumental music. Singing may or may not be involved. The Greek Bible translates this word as solo to sing hymns. So that's pretty interesting, but what I? So I looked up some of the scripture verses with it. There are several of them, but there are two that I'll refer to right now, and the first one is Psalm 144, 9, which, for those that you know, this is God's word and it was our roadmap for for living right, and even though it's Old Testament, it David is like he had a New Testament relationship in the Old Testament times yeah, so it was the ax, something that was new, yeah super cool about what time is, and so in here it says I will sing a new song to you, o God, upon a harp of ten strings, I will sing praises to you, and I think this is really interesting because you brought it up when we were talking before the podcast about specifically about the harp.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a story I don't know if you knew this before David became king, he was playing Saul, was having, being pretty much just tormented by these spirits and pretty much like he called in musicians, and David was one of I mean was a musician that was wanted somebody to come in and play for him, to calm those spirits yeah, and so so.
Speaker 1:David was chosen because somebody recommended him.
Speaker 2:David was zamaring for Saul and the spirits left amidst David's praise to God through his instrument, and so I think it's cool to kind of think about this as, like you can play your instrument. Saul wasn't necessarily asking for a worship service.
Speaker 1:Right. He just wanted peace. He wanted freedom from the torment, a lifting of the torment. And how many people are out there right now that are living in anxiety and depression? And just splintered individuals with voices and just a mind that's overactive and OCD and so many different things going on. There's so much chaos in the atmosphere, and so he just wanted relief from that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's so much. A lot of people think that worship passes over in like zamaring or playing your instrument to God has to be within a church wall or be in a worship setting. I mean, all music that we should play should be to worship God, right, I mean, if we're not worshiping God, we're ultimately worshiping somebody else.
Speaker 1:You know what I also think it kind of signifies to Josiah. So the church that we go to really dives into prophetic worship and even I was meeting with our worship pastor today and she was saying she feels like it's one of her or actually it was yesterday one of her biggest missions is to keep worship pure. The purity of worship is a big pursuit for hers and one of the things we do at New Creation. I'm not saying this is a formula, but we will have designated time where we are just the instrumentals are playing there are no words, there's a marring now I have the word for it um, and it's so beautiful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean there's other times when we have new songs from people, but these are the times when there's just, it's just the instruments no voices, no words, no talking, it's just this instrumental, um zamari, and it's powerful. I think those are some of the most powerful times and the presence of the lord, like even this last sunday, just settles in so beautifully. It's like this beautiful space place that the holy spirit can rest. And man, I mean just to think about what it did with David playing the instruments.
Speaker 2:Literally caused the spirits to just bleed.
Speaker 1:So how many times, when we're leading worship or we're a part of worship, are we getting you? Know, relief from the Lord. I also think it's really cool because I love to listen to like when we do intercessory prayer times and stuff, we'll often have music under it, whether it's live or you know William Augusto has some great instrumental music, just soaking music, and it does like the artistry of it and just the release of that, zamar. It shifts the atmosphere and, like you, can get so much more centered on the Lord.
Speaker 1:It aligns you with the lord, it it shifts the atmosphere where, where the enemy doesn't want to be in the presence of the lord right it just shifts everything and even like when I go to sleep at night, I had a friend, heidi, if you're listening, um, I, we do inner healing together and she was talking about how she just will turn on her soaking music she likes this one in particular, yeshua in instrumental and she just puts the cover blanket over and she just gets with holy spirit and she goes to sleep at night with that. So imagine that, zamar, happening. And so I started doing it and it is pretty incredible just to have that washing over me as I sleep, because your spirit never sleeps.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's some times where, if I don't know if you've ever done this, but you just put on some instrumental music and it just there's just a calming sensation. And I don't think that's just because the music's got a good tune or whatever. I think there's literally something spiritually happening where it's this causing the demons that are maybe tormenting you or attempting to torment you to leave um there's I was talking to manuel about um. Like I really enjoy classical music a lot of the time those don't have singing or anything in them. Yeah, sometimes it has opera, but a lot of those uh, artists or composers were like either catholic but they believed in jesus and stuff like that, and so they wrote those right and it is a zamar and so it's pretty interesting stuff. Um, kind of want to touch wanted to touch on this as well is that it's.
Speaker 2:It's important for us to not just play within the church, to zamar within the church walls, because it allows us to go like david did. If david said, no, I'm just gonna keep my worship to myself, saul would have been tormented and who knows what kind of person he would have become. I mean, saul ended up becoming like this person that was jealous of david. But imagine how much ex. How, how expedited that would have been if david had not. I mean, there's too many things that I could like it could could have happened. That didn't, because david yielded to the lord and just he's a mart in front of saul and helped him, like this, to pretty much just shuffle away those spirits yeah, and so yeah, we're supposed to do that.
Speaker 2:I think we're supposed to do that in the public place, in the marketplace and in the.
Speaker 1:I think that's part of why we've had a vision to go out into like farmers markets and stuff like that to shift the atmosphere.
Speaker 1:I remember when I was in Redding, california, where Bethel churches, and I was eating out at a very nice restaurant with some friends and all of a sudden I hear somebody. They had a live band there and I heard somebody and this is not to my knowledge was not a Christian owned, it wasn't owned by the church or anything, but they hired bands to come in and so clearly this band, they were singing some secular songs, but then every like third song they would have what I heard break out was this one time was Reckless Love, you know, and she was just singing it and you know it was just an acoustic set and it was just, but you could feel the whole atmosphere shift in the room. And so, and we are the ones that carry the authority of the Lord everywhere our foot treads, joshua says, is ours. So we carry the authority and Jesus has raised us up and given us everything that he's been given, and and so when we play, we play from that place.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, another verse, um, that goes along with this, which I think is another example of instruments, is let them praise him his name, with dancing. There you go. We're not talking about dancing, we'll talk about that later but let them sing praises to him with the tambourine and the lyre. Lyre, lyre, a lot of pants on fire, the lyre, I don't know. You can let us know if I'm saying that wrong.
Speaker 1:And for those of you who are on video. I'm showing a picture of what a lyre is. Who are on video? I'm showing a picture of what a lyre is.
Speaker 2:It's really cool. It just has like.
Speaker 1:It's pretty much like a harp. It's like a harp, it's like a mini that you can hold in your hand. It's super cool. But I mean, all these instruments release a different sound, which is so cool, and I think that in and of itself is evidence that. God wants us to bring our artistry and our instruments in, to be using them, not to not use them.
Speaker 2:Many instruments were invented just to praise the Lord. I mean David invented instruments to praise the Lord with a sound that would be different than all the rest of them, but really something different. So each instrument has a a purpose yeah, in worshiping the lord yes yeah, so that is zamar, so make sure that you guys are taking the time. If you're an instrumentalist to uh, you know, just play before the lord. You don't need to add in lyrics. You can play whatever.
Speaker 1:It doesn't need to sound great listen to it yourself at night, so that you can um experience that for yourself too if you can't play instruments, that's the way to do it.
Speaker 2:But if you can play, I recommend you just go ahead when you're, instead of having like a I mean, practicing is great, but maybe direct your practice more of a sense of like I'm just gonna play for the lord you know, and so yeah, and now you know, I'm going to zamar, the Lord, she's going to zamar the. Lord yeah, what up Open Waters family? I just wanted to take one quick second away from the podcast.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry to ask you if you could please go ahead like, rate and subscribe to this podcast, because it does wonders for us reaching more people so that we can get the word of God out to people and what God is speaking to us. Open Waters is all about building up intimacy with God, building up the morale of Christianity in the body of Christ, as well as building fellowship. So if you have any friends, please send them our way so we can get to know them as well. Take care, I love you guys.
Speaker 2:Our next word is Shabbach. It is Shabbat, it is Shabbat, and so pretty much what this word means is to praise the Lord or speak loudly. Uh, praise, triumph, address loudly. So this is very much like a. This isn't what would be considered a polite uh type of phrase and a lot of churches would say this is not allowed in their church because it's it's distracting, almost um, but in in like, we're referencing the prophetic worship book quite a bit, but at the end of this section for shabbat it says note the call for the nations, the people, to shabbat the lord.
Speaker 2:No allowance is made for any nation, denomination of people to be excused from shouting to the Lord. It is important to note that the Lord is who inspired and directed the writing of the scriptures. This is how he expects to be addressed, and so this is how he expects to be addressed. Meaning it's not like I said. It doesn't make allowance for us. There's no waing or uh stuttering when we were shouting to the lord, and there's no, there's no fighting it. I guess I should say there's no crap, what is it?
Speaker 1:there's no favoritism or no it's like a unity is there's no what I'm trying to say. There's, there's just not like a separation.
Speaker 2:Separation no, no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 1:Sorry.
Speaker 2:You're making it worse.
Speaker 1:Do, do, do, do, do I do this? I like to play the game. Yeah, Try to figure it out what you trying to say.
Speaker 2:You can't Crap. There's no respecter of persons, no, exactly.
Speaker 1:Everybody is welcome and actually commanded to come together Like. It's not a time when you focus on your differences, any differences.
Speaker 2:The way, I guess, is, what I'm trying to say is yeah, it's not a request, it's an order. And so when God says that we're to Shabbat him, it's not optional. Yeah, it's not optional, it's a command. We're not supposed to just take this as a oh, we can Shabbat now, but when the Lord comes into the room, it's like we're shouting the Lord's name. Because like hallelujah, the Lord's here Like fresh start.
Speaker 1:Yeah, judah.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, if you guys have ever been to fresh start, they're very fiery Fire. They're very fiery fire and so yeah, and so how you say is Shabbat, and again it's just to praise, just to shout or to speak loudly. All the nations praise, triumph him, all ye people. And so it's the commend or law to shout or address in a loud tone and to give this isn't where you're not shablocking here.
Speaker 1:Wear earplugs if you don't like the loud tones.
Speaker 2:Somebody that I want to commend that shablocks is Lester from church. He just he'll shout. Yes, and it's and there's, and I think some people get like really religious with it and always shouting.
Speaker 1:Or freaked out by it.
Speaker 2:It's just like, oh, he's just trying to put on a show.
Speaker 1:Lester is not one of those people. There is a time and place like you don't. You have to know, um, what god is doing in the room and you, you know you have to be in a line with that. This is not where we're doing zamar. And then you decide you're just gonna do a show right in the middle of this amazing and kind of moment with the Lord.
Speaker 1:No, you're going to be in unity with the Spirit, who is one God, one Father of us all. So it's going to flow with where the Holy Spirit is going and where the room is going and stuff like that. So it's not out of place.
Speaker 2:Well, if the king is sitting on his throne, you're not. I mean, when the king comes into the town, into the city, you're going to shabak because you're welcoming him and you're proclaiming his arrival.
Speaker 1:When I was working, we were doing a fundraiser for one of our kids' rugby and we were doing it. We were serving no, we were guarding the entrances to checking people's bags before they walked in to the football stadium for a football game between Oklahoma and BYU. Right, we live in Utah and so when the Oklahoma players came out people, these are college kids. We're not even talking about a celebrity movie star or a singer or NFL, we're talking just about a college team.
Speaker 1:People were yelling and shouting and you know, and in triumph too, like because they were, and think about, during the game when they score, they're, they're, they're, they're getting excited and being loud about them.
Speaker 2:Triumph by about other victory their win yeah, how many times are people willing to be to shabak praise their football team or their sports team, but not sh Shabbat, the Lord at church, and so it's a great question.
Speaker 1:But I mean, I've heard it before, but it really it's so. It's so silly. It is God, is not?
Speaker 2:We look just as silly I mean more silly praising something that's so temporary and so insignificant.
Speaker 1:Like it doesn't make him less sacred to to yell for him and to shout for him. It's actually when it's done in the right time and from the right place in your heart not to get attention. Not because your emotions are out of control I mean some of it, it might happen, sometimes Totally, but it's because of you are declaring the victory and the triumph of God and worshiping God, because you are commending so holy, and you're just acknowledging who he is and what he's done and just giving him glory and praise yeah, so I wanted to also say so there's those.
Speaker 2:That was like. The first half of my example is like the king comes into the city, we praise him loudly because we're addressing like it says here. It says to shout or address in a loud tone to commend or laud, to give glory or triumph and praise, but when the king is on the throne, you're not going to have people come into the throne room and start screaming oh yeah, they're going to be very respectful. Right, they'll probably have me some instruments.
Speaker 2:There is a marring the king right and pleasing the king with their worship, their music, and so they're not going to be Shabak. So it is a time and a place for everything. There are occasions where the king might declare something, and then we are to try it by giving praise and triumph, you know in the throne room, and so it's just like there's a time and place for everything.
Speaker 2:That's where it just everything. That's where it's just it goes with all these types of praise. It's. It just requires us to know why we're doing it, but also to practice it, and if we're wrong, okay, we keep get up. Move on, yeah, and if someone gets mad at you, okay yeah you can. You can give them resources that they can learn from. Or you can, or you can get hurt about it and stop praising the Lord, and I really hope you don't do that.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Because. But anyway, that's a whole nother topic, but pretty much time and place.
Speaker 1:I think this is really cool too. So some other Bible. There's lots of places in the Bible in the Psalms. Josiah read one of those earlier. It's in Psalm 117, having to do with Shabbat, but Daniel, I have this is really cool 117 having to do with Shabbat, but, daniel, I thought this was really cool. So Daniel 2.23. So let me set the stage for you. When this was used.
Speaker 1:So this was the time when the king was looking for so Nebuchadnezzar. He was starting to have these prophetic dreams and he had had this one particular particular dream and you may remember what it was about. It was about the big um statue and it has a lot to do. It's been studied and they found out that it's about the end times. So it was about the, the statue. Yeah, it was about the statue um, and you can read the whole. You know daniel's. It was fantastic, but daniel too, talks about it. And so, um, and he was getting, the king was getting ready to kill the wise men, because the wise men could not.
Speaker 1:He didn't want to tell them what the dream is. He wanted them to tell them what the dream was and to interpret the dream, and they did not have the capability. So he's going to put them to death because they couldn't. And daniel said no, no, no, wait, I've got the, I have got the answer, i've've got the interpretation, I have the dream. So in part of that he just started to, he said in Daniel 2.22, it is he who reveals the profound and hidden things. He knows what is in the darkness, and the light dwells in him. And here's where that praise word comes out. I thank you and praise you, oh god of my fathers, for you have given me wisdom and power even now. You have made me, made known to me what we requested of you, for you have made known to us the solution to the king's matter. So he's, he's yelling out in praise thank you god, and commending god and giving, giving him applause with his shout because of what God did Then again in Psalm I'm sorry, daniel four.
Speaker 1:This is the situation in which, if you remember the story, nebuchadnezzar had a, had a vision where he basically saw himself becoming an animal. And so, and Daniel got the interpretation and he told him about it and in fact it happened. Nebuchadnezzar got very prideful, looked out of his kingdom and said I did all this, and then he became like an animal on four legs eating the grass for a period of time. Well, the Lord did deliver him eventually and this is what he said after that happened he Shabbat, nebuchadnezzar Shabbat after this whole experience. That happened after the vision happened after he had the vision. Then it was interpreted and he actually did it, and then it happened to him. He said, but at the end of the days, that is seven periods of time, so seven years I, nebuchadnezzar, raised my eyes toward heaven and my understanding and reason returned to me and I blessed the most by God and I praised and honored and glorified him, who lives forever, for his dominion is an everlasting dominion and his kingdom endures from generation to generation.
Speaker 2:He wasn't the king of Israel. This was a Persian king, no, yeah, babylon. Babylon. Yeah sorry, but that's crazy that if he got to the point where he shook off the Lord, Right. That's crazy. Let me make sure I have it right on the…. That's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I mean the fact that he had that happen, and then he himself and I think that we brought up Les and Les has in our on our podcasts and our video blogs, but he you know, I've often said less does that because he has experienced what the lord has done and his shabbat comes from just like nebuchadnezzar, honoring and glorifying god, because he had had.
Speaker 2:He's been on the other side of this also God has radically saved him yeah, and it comes from that deep reverence, um and give, to give glory and triumph through praise. Yes, and so he's giving. Yeah, anyway, it's just he's one of those people that has just truly gone through the ringer in life and he's just literally and god has done so much for him, and so it's like nebuchadnezzar he did that.
Speaker 1:I was going to read the last part too. I love this because I want to read this too so it's verse 34 and 37 and daniel 4, so I already read 34.
Speaker 1:He also said at the end now I, nebuchadnezzar, praise and exalt and honor the king of heaven, for all his works are true and faithful and his ways are just, and he is able to humiliate and humble those who walk in self-centered, self-righteous pride, commending god for disciplining him. Wow, wouldn't we love to commend god for disciplining us. I know I'm thankful that he does that, even though I don't like it during the middle of it.
Speaker 2:It doesn't. It definitely sucks.
Speaker 1:That's cool, huh.
Speaker 2:It's some awesome stuff, super cool, super cool stuff.
Speaker 1:I'm glad you wanted to do this series.
Speaker 2:So, guys, I hope you guys learned something today. And if you did not put it in the comments, and if you did put it in the comments, Don't tell us.
Speaker 1:Next week we're going to have the last two words For the seven words of praise, and then we'll Continue on.
Speaker 2:So if you guys have anything you'd like Us to talk about, please feel free to throw it in the comments. Anyway, that's pretty much it.
Speaker 1:Nice Josiah.
Speaker 2:Take care Bye.
