Open Waters Podcast
This podcast is all about what God is doing in Utah through the church, and through the ministry of Open Waters Worship. If you don't know who we are, we are a worship ministry in the heart of Salt Lake City, Utah who's reason for being is JESUS. We want all people to have GROWTH, not only in relationship with our King, but with the people around us as well. We also want people to cultivate a deep and pure INTIMACY with God, and from that intimacy a FREEDOM to be who we are called to be; and to top it off we want the body of Christ to radiate UNITY. The body as a whole can accomplish so much more than one person alone. So we want to ask you, are you ready to join us in an effort to unify the body, and grow in relationship? Are you ready for what true intimacy with the King looks like? If so, come give us a listen! We'd love to hear your feedback as well. Tell us your thoughts and if you have a question feel free to reach out to us! We love you and pray for an overflowing in all avenues of your life <3
Open Waters Podcast
30: Thank You For The Gifts, But I Just Want You
How would your life change if you discovered a new level of intimacy with God? This is a journey we invite you to embark upon with us, discovering the transformative power of worship. We start off by sharing some light-hearted banter about our recent Open Water's Worship gathering, our preference for specific types of sandals, and the highly anticipated Worshiping Musician Workshop at New Creation Church. We don't just stop at that, we explore the depth of our connection with Jesus, His various names, and a fresh song to sing each week. We encourage you to engage with us, share your thoughts, and be part of this enriching experience.
Has the enemy ever overwhelmed you? Are you seeking a more profound connection with God? We've been there and we're excited to share our experiences with you. We discuss how building an intimate relationship with God can elevate our gifts and how honoring each other's gifts can foster unity and a healthy atmosphere. We emphasize the importance of focusing on God, not our gifts - a perspective that enhances our worship and creates a unified environment.
Do you find yourself competing with others or comparing your gifts? We shed light on how surrendering our gifts to God helps us overcome insecurities. We reveal how our various gifts can be used to chase after God, thereby eliminating any form of competition or comparison. We'll also talk about the beauty of creating deeper intimacy with God and how it leads to a more fulfilling life of worship. So, are you ready to embark on this journey with us? Let's get started!
Here is a link to the Worshiping Musician Workshop : CLICK ME
Open Waters Family,
Just wanted to say welcome, and thank you for joining us! We love you and hope you know that God loves you so so so much!
Here at Open Waters Worship ( OWW ) we long for an intimacy, and hunger for God. Where a people are hungry and fully in love with God, that is where revival happens. REVIVAL IS COMING!!!
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Thank you for being amazing and we pray blessings over you!
You know, I used to really okay when a worship service or a I work a lot with people in inter healing and deliverance, when one of those sessions would go really well, or when I was sitting with somebody and I could feel the presence of the Lord moving in their hearts, or whatever the case may be, or I had a divine appointment with somebody. I almost looked at that, like, oh, I must be really close to the Lord, like when the gifts were operating. I'm like, oh, this is an indicator of how good my relationship is with the Lord, or how good I am, or you know what I'm saying, how in right standing I am, and that's just so, not true. Hello, we're so glad you're back with us again on Open Water's Worship Podcast. We are so excited about our topic today and about just having this talk together with you, josiah.
Speaker 2:Hello.
Speaker 1:And our audience members. Man, I wish we had some more interaction with you guys, but just go ahead and leave us some comments in the bottom and we'll try to respond to those. We also can have you contact us at openwaterworshipatgmailcom if you want to just give us any kind of feedback Openwaterworship at gmailcom and it was the only one without an S on the end. Oh yeah, it's a little on the same.
Speaker 1:Weird. Anyway, we have our open waters. I'm just going to get this out in the beginning. We've got our Open Water's Worship gathering. That's happening this Saturday every week, that we release a podcast second and four weeks of the month. We have Open Water's Worship on that Saturday, and so we have that at our home 6pm. So we would love to invite you, invite your friends, all ages welcome. It's a completely free environment that is run by the Holy Spirit of God. So anyway, josiah, how are you doing?
Speaker 2:I'm doing well. We're actually recording from the depths of my palace my house.
Speaker 1:I know first podcast from your place.
Speaker 2:I know it's weird. It feels nice to finally be in my place, for I mean, I know the last episode. I said that was my place and then I did actually have to go dog sit again, which I realized after the fact. And so, yeah, here we are.
Speaker 1:Here we are.
Speaker 2:Second week going strong. Hopefully they can stay this way. I know I have to dog sit more in November. I don't have to, I get to, I should say, and so but yeah, it's going good, I'm enjoying life. Yeah, working out. Still, I'm about to go to day after we're done here, pretty soon after we're done here, at least.
Speaker 1:Good job. You're down like 20 pounds Awesome, yeah, hey. So a little more about us. We have this segment every time. Yeah, shoes. Do you like the sandals that have the thing between the toes or do you prefer the ones that don't have the little stuff between the toes? What's your preference?
Speaker 2:I don't like the one with the in between the toes. They just kind of it's like they were going to break and whatever.
Speaker 1:I remember that time.
Speaker 2:You took a video of me. I did. I mean walking out of a like the movie theater after Ask us for the video.
Speaker 1:If you're listening to this and you want to laugh, ask us for the video and we will post it either on Instagram or on the notes. The show notes. Yeah, we're going to do it, You've got to be a master. Blackmail. That's right. I forgot about that.
Speaker 2:I'm going to have to go into the wilderness.
Speaker 1:So we went to the movie theater, we came out and the shoe thing broke. So we have great video of just I have walking, trying to pretend like it wasn't happening, disassociating.
Speaker 2:No, I just. I refused to walk on that floor, but barefooted.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. Anyway, I'm the same, same Z's. I don't like the thing between my toe because it just feels uncomfortable.
Speaker 2:Then they like slippers If you have the ones that we're talking about, like the ones that are over the foot rather than in between your foot.
Speaker 1:I like those. Those are my faves.
Speaker 2:We don't want the ones in the foot. It's gross. It's like all your middle of that foot area too is getting on that little cord Gross. So if you have those, make sure you go return them with all that foot stuff on it and then gets yourself some around your foot, oh my gosh Sandals.
Speaker 1:Aren't you glad you know a little more about?
Speaker 2:us today?
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely, but you always never wanted to know. Anyway, Josiah, what's our topic today?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you sure about that? Today's a great topic. Yeah, it is. It is thanks for the gifts, but I just want you and guess who we're talking about.
Speaker 1:I wonder who. I wonder who.
Speaker 2:We're talking about Jesus, jesus Christ, yeshua, all the names.
Speaker 1:Messiah, king of Kings, the one that I would talk about in church elderly Lioneland Shaddai. Oh, we're singing that song this week. I'm so excited.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:It's the Yeshua. No Messiah will manifest himself, or something like that. So excited about that song.
Speaker 2:She's singing it and she doesn't even know the name, all the names of God.
Speaker 1:Shaddai Adonai Rafa Jaira.
Speaker 2:This is a really we're starting off with a side note, but I talked to Manny, I forget when it was like I talked to him a while For worshiping musicians.
Speaker 1:Who's having a summit this Saturday, if you?
Speaker 2:listen to it.
Speaker 1:Before Saturday. You can join in. It's from 10 am to 1 pm at New Creation Church in Sandy. Just look that up, new Creation Church. I think Salt Lake is how you'll find it.
Speaker 2:It is free.
Speaker 1:It's free. I mean they'll take donations, but it is free.
Speaker 2:Yep, and feel free to. It's an open invite. If you're a musician, if you're a worshiper, at any level, which is anybody, yeah, flat art, a worshiper in the audience, singer, musician on stage during your own private time.
Speaker 1:Yep, you qualify.
Speaker 2:Everybody does Anyway, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Was that your sidebar?
Speaker 2:That was the sidebar.
Speaker 1:I think you were talking. You were saying you were going to talk to Manny about.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's about how everybody should learn the names of Jesus, because I think a lot of the times, you know, we kind of just skip over that. We kind of just read, oh yeah, he is Elroy, our provider, and it's like I think that's what that means, or he sees the God that sees me as Elroy, anyway, and so even I get them mixed up. There's so many names anyway.
Speaker 1:You need to do the study, just like that I need to do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So thanks for the gifts, but I just want you. This is something that has really been God's been pressing into my heart. I think I've just walked through a season of really feeling I don't want to say dissatisfied, but kind of just dissatisfied. And I know there are things in the atmosphere right now I'm realizing too that are just kind of the world's been crazy for a while, but just a lack of motivation, yeah, To say the least, kind of a lack of motivation and and some different areas, and so I recognize that's in the atmosphere, but also the just the sense of I am looking for more and I really have had to pull out the pieces of that that are me not comfortable in peace or in sitting or in just being, because I think in our society and you know, we've heard so many times if the enemy can't, you know, get you to be on his team, he'll allow you to work yourself to death. So I don't want it to be that. I don't want it to be because I am dealing with a sense of any kind of trauma or fear that I have to be doing, doing, doing, doing, instead of just being, and allowing my thoughts to to be there and just sit with me, with God, which is very important. That's for another podcast, but so I really had to pull out those pieces of okay, what is it that I'm searching for?
Speaker 1:And one of the things I've really just come to is I'm at such a healthy place now and in a very healthy environment not perfect, but where we are at church and the people that I get the honor of serving alongside and um, and it's really cool because there's such mutual honor in our body, People who recognize your gifts, and there's not. There's not competition or comparison or trying to have you diminish because of fear, or just there's not religious or and again, we're still works in progress but this is not the prevailing spirit. The prevailing spirit is Jesus and unity and love and honor and so, but there's just not that kind of control. Even I did worship for the first time on the team for Sunday morning. There's there's not hierarchy, which it's good to have structure and it's good to have leadership and also it's nice to not feel like there's this hierarchy of things, that we're truly a team and so.
Speaker 1:So there's this really healthy environment and so the gifts that I have are are coming out to light and they're being very appreciated, and but what I've realized is, wow, I'm so thankful for those gifts, but my intimacy with the Lord has been lacking. And so I could sing the socks off and have the presence of God come in and sing right on tune and or see somebody get freed and delivered and healed, and that's amazing, that's wonderful, and I never want to lose my sense of wonder with that. But if I don't have that intimacy with God, that's the more that I'm seeking, that's the more that I'm needing. Even more in these days, right, Even more in these days, we have to be aware and with him. And so I feel like that's where I'm at. It's it's like thank you, God, for the gifts. I really, really just want you. You're the prize, You're everything. And if I have, if I'm a part of a service, a worship service, that brings down the house and the Holy Spirit comes, but I don't feel that connection with you, it feels so empty.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm right there with you. I think it's we've kind of gotten. I think it's really easy, especially when you serve at church, to just be like, oh yeah, it's all about the gifts, it's all about I don't want to say performing, because I think that's a whole other story and you to perform into actually like almost manufacture something. I think at New Creation we don't struggle with manufacturing anything, but I think we're still in this area where it's like, oh, it's about the gifts, it's about the amount of anointing on the gifts and, yes, that's great, but I think we still need to have that, that hunger for Jesus. Even if, yes, our gifts are amazing and our gifts are being used in a good way, I think it's still just chasing after one thing and that's Jesus, and so, yeah, and I agree.
Speaker 1:It was like a first point.
Speaker 2:It's just for me. He's been revealing to me more and more that it's just. He is everything. It doesn't matter about how well you play, it doesn't matter Like I worship with Wayne on Wednesday nights I believe it's every other Wednesday and we just minister really well together and it's it's a really blessed time. But it's just more than just. More than that, it's just we are both after one thing and it's just. That's Jesus. And so when you realize that he is everything and you start going after it, it transcends your gift, your anointing, and it's because you're truly chasing after one thing. You're worshiping in spirit and in truth, because you're literally just wanting him, and I think that's where that you know worship and spirit. And in truth is it's you're surpassing your gifts, which is this kind of our gifts on us, and we're going into the spirit and we're just chasing after one thing, and so and if you're both looking at that, how much further can you go when you're just both operating in that place, of that's your one desire.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I was thinking about just the worshiping as our goal, that he is everything. I mean, the more the older I get and the more I, the deeper I get in him and in the mysteries of God, and the more he reveals himself, the more I realize and the more I just even we were. I was at Jesus image recently and I just was. He was talking about Michael Cullianos was talking about how Catherine Coleman you know people would criticize her because she would talk about and it still sounds weird to me, but she would talk about what she ate and all these things, and he said that was he realized that's her emptying herself of herself so that he could be more.
Speaker 1:And I, just, I have this sense of I want to reduce myself. Yes, I'm grateful for these gifts, but these are a means to an end and the end is him and I want less of me and more of him. I want to reduce so that he can. You know, I decrease so he can increase. I want to reduce and reduce and reduce and empty myself of me, not being like again. I just want I can't say it enough, I'm so thankful for the gifts and we should use our gifts, the 10 talents you know. God gave them for the purpose of of souls coming in and people being drawn to that gift that leads them to Jesus and and so many times we stop at that draws them to us and we soak it all in and we don't let it draw them to Jesus.
Speaker 1:It doesn't mean not acknowledging that when somebody says you have a good voice, beautiful voice, thank you. But ultimately, like Bill Johnson says, when he goes in his heart and when he goes home, thank you God. And he directs, directs it back to God.
Speaker 2:Hey there, sorry for the interruption. Just wanted to say, if you haven't already rate and reviewed this podcast, it would mean the absolute world to us If you could rate and review and share this with somebody you know. That way we can get the word out and we can help other people dive deeper into God's open waters. Now let's get back to the podcast. You know something that Manny told me on that I was like I asked him this question, like so when somebody compliments you, what do you say? And he was more like you know you can receive the compliment it's okay to receive and then just say you know, hey, but glory to God, because because then you're obviously giving them, you know you're receiving it, and you're not seem seeming arrogant or prideful by just, you know, being like okay, thanks, right, it's also reflecting and then giving it back to God in front of that person because they know where you want them to know where that is going and to so I think just approaching, like you were talking you were saying this earlier, I don't remember.
Speaker 1:It just kind of sparked me to think this but when we're utilizing our gifts, when we're operating our gifts, like for you, you're writing a song right now and you have a beautiful gift of writing both the musical side of it and the lyrical side of it, and the thing that I've told you all along is just make sure, as you're writing, it's not about somebody asks you to write this song for this event, or I've got to produce a song that's going to be accepted by the masses or that people will like or that makes sense, which you want, all those things but really make it about your journey with Jesus, like the intimacy, the partnering with him in intimacy, in writing that song. So whether it's singing or ministering, healing to somebody or doing the flags, it's not about how it's going to be received, it's not about the end product, it is about him. It's about that intimacy with him, even in writing. That's your goal. It's about that. It's not about the outcome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, people are. Some people may be greatly affected more people, maybe less people. But another thing I remember, at Jesus image, just recently, michael Culliano saying some of their most anointed songs, the ones that affect people the most, are not the most watched songs. The most anointed glory heavy songs are not the most watched.
Speaker 1:And so anyway, and I bet the journey for those songs was not in wanting the end product but was the journey with Jesus and the intimacy with Jesus in the creating of that yeah, yeah 100%.
Speaker 2:I think just kind of moving along with just, you know, in worship, just realizing that you want him.
Speaker 2:You know, in worship there's no point where it's about me or it's about you or it's about any band member, because I think a lot of the time when we have the gifts of being a good worshiper, I think I call out Manny a lot, but like everybody, you know, I think they call out Manny, they call out Paul, they call out different people and when, you know, when they do that in a service, like Pastor comes up and be like you know, the drums really, just you know, are really amazing today, or the trumpet just opened up the heavens, I think it's really easy for everybody to now look at that person and then look at the gift that they've been given and just glorify the gifts rather than the giver.
Speaker 2:And so if you just realize, when you're on stage and you start, you know you're using that gift in no way, shape or form is it about you. And if you are being pointed out or spotlighted, you just I think it's about making sure that you're a mirror rather than um than a cover, and so just making sure that you know you give the glory to God and it and I think that will come from that will come as a second nature. If you're really just chasing God and you're just at this place of I gotta, thank you for my gift, but I really just want you and so it's this place of surrender, and I would also like to say that insecurity makes.
Speaker 2:Insecurity makes anything that you do on stage about you, because it's your, your second guessing yourself, your second guessing what the God's given you and it's all about me, me, me, I'm. Am I doing this right? Am I doing is how can I even listen to you, god? Or you know? I'm saying you're on stage and you're hitting wrong notes and whatnot. And if you just are chasing God, I'm not saying you're going to automatically become like Mozart or Beethoven, but I think, just realizing that, even if you sound bad and you know are playing wrong notes, if it's still about God, I think there he's going to be able to use it more than he would be if it's all about you, and so, and because you want him, you just want him, and I don't think people are going to judge you for that.
Speaker 1:So I mean, I think yeah to your point it. It, when we are, when we are insecure with our, our gifting instead of and we're it really puts the focus on the gift instead of on him. And, honestly, when you're insecure and you're focusing on your gift, you're you know what you're going to produce with that gift anyway, quality wise is not going to be as great.
Speaker 1:But, I, you know, the people that I love the most in worship are those that are. What I love about them is just their intimacy with God. Yes, they're gifted, but, like Stephanie Gretzinger, she doesn't have a spectacular voice like a Lauren Dago type voice or something like that. She has a good voice. I'm not saying she's going to have a good voice. She has a beautiful voice, but it's not. It's not like a diva type voice. What? What causes that beautiful gift of singing to be so incredible and what draws us is her intimacy. You, when she speaks, when she's on stage, she is not worried about the people Not saying that she doesn't have a flesh, that I don't know that wars with that, but she's she. When you hear her speak, she just loves Jesus 100% and.
Speaker 1:Jesus is home. He is home, heaven is home. Heaven is. It's that feeling of completion, of complete home, complete shalom. That's what he is and that's what. And when we're intimate with him, when we're, when we're empty of ourselves and we have more capacity to receive more of him, then we experience that and but that's what, that's what makes her her gift so, and so special is her love and her intimacy with God.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what it's all about, man. I also want to say, like, outside of worship, there's a lot of gifts. There's the fivefold ministry, the gifts that God's given us, and I think, are you talking about those? Are you talking about other gifts?
Speaker 1:I'm talking about it and all the above, any gifts that God's giving you, whether it's you can, you know, decorate a home beautifully, or you can sing, or you can, you are an amazing prophet, apostle or evangelist or discerner or generous person, hospitality, whatever I'm talking about all the gifts I mean. We focus on worship because that's what that's what this podcast is geared toward, but I think it's applied to any of those areas.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just want to say like, if any, if you have any gift, you can still do it in a place that is just chasing God, even if it is decorating a home being, even if you're like a great person that knows how to clean you know how to clean very well or you need to, you know how to talk to people in a very loving manner. It's everything can be a gift and is a gift, obviously, and can be used to chase after God. You know, god says the way like treat your neighbor as yourself, and different things like that throughout the entire Bible, and it's you can chase after God just by treating your neighbor with love and in doing everything as unto the Lord. And so I think it doesn't just part, like you say, these gifts aren't just for worship, but or in the within the church walls, it's also outside the church walls, and so if you thank God for the gift, obviously, but don't, you know, forget who gave you the gift and just treat it as this is an act on to God as well.
Speaker 1:That's right, that's right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think one other thing too, and this whole topic, is that you know, I used to really okay when a worship service or a I work a lot with people in inter healing and deliverance, when one of those sessions would go really well, or when I was sitting with somebody and I could feel the presence of the Lord moving in their hearts, or whatever the case may be, or I had a divine appointment with somebody. I almost looked at that, like, oh, I must be really close to the Lord, like when the gifts were operating. I'm like, oh, this is an indicator of how good my relationship is with the Lord, or how good I am, or you know what I'm saying, how in right standing I am, and that's just so not true, it's an Old Testament way of thinking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like you know, that's grace, that's the grace of God that it goes, that it has the successful outcome, or that I see people deeply moved by God. And again, it has nothing to do with me, it doesn't. It has to do with God and it just has to do with me. And he already did it on the cross. I'm just walking out and exercising and that's why we can see.
Speaker 2:Responding.
Speaker 1:This is why we can see huge leaders that are so anointed and gifted. You know, we walk through COVID and we saw so many different responses to things and some of them you're like how could this man of God or woman of God fall into this yeah.
Speaker 1:That's so gifted, so used of God in such a powerful way either fall into sin or believe this deception or whatever. Because just because their gifts are flowing, just because I am a part of a service or I sing a song and somebody is deeply affected, is not an indicator, that is not feedback for me that I'm walking with the Lord right on. That is not. That could be happening and my heart could be. I could be doing things in secret that people don't know about, and yeah, I was going to say that.
Speaker 2:How many times do you have these issues that are going on like 10, 12, 15, 20 years and they're still? Their church is, quote unquote, like the right, a very lively, powerful church with the Holy Spirits fell and things are going on behind the scenes. Think of a Hillsong. They just had this big whole thing with a bunch of their pastors I believe worship pastors specifically that they just had to. It was clean house pretty much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and some of them, some of it was proven to be false and stuff but, still yeah, it happens all the time.
Speaker 1:There's so many times that stuff happens, and so just for me personally I realize that had crept into my way of thinking subconsciously is that, you know, oh, I must be good, and I didn't think about so much if things didn't go well, because I tend to think I focus on me and some of that sounds noble, like if it didn't go well, it must be me. If it went well, though, it must be me, so it's not To double edged sword.
Speaker 1:Right and so so that's just being vulnerable, that's something, and so I really have realized that has nothing to do with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Has nothing to do with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the amount of your gift that's used is not a reflection direct reflection of your relationship with God. There's still people that are don't even know who God is and they're still. They could I'm not going to say this Like they're not knowingly operating in who God's made them to be, but they could still be operating into a gift that God's given them.
Speaker 1:It's why people, it's why there are psychics, it's why there are all these other people, these people who use Reiki and all this other kind of stuff, because they have a gift from the Lord that is given without revocation, but it is not attached to the Holy Spirit of God. Yet those gifts are operating powerfully and effectively. They're just attached to a different spirit, and so we could be still attached to the Holy Spirit because we're saved and yet we're not operating in the spirit. You know we're not operating. We got a lot of flesh operating and running that thing instead of the Holy Spirit, and it still will.
Speaker 2:It's still going to go off.
Speaker 1:Right Because of God's grace, but I like the way you put. When we talked about our show and we made some notes, you said if the day was good or worship was good, our gift might have been activated in you. But it's not always a clear definition of our relationship or status with God. We can't use that as feedback for whether or not we have a. Our relationship is intact with the Lord and so that's what I think a lot of people do.
Speaker 2:I think I can think of like, maybe youth pastors, kids and people even on worship teams that are like, oh, worship is great, I must be doing, fine, I don't need to read my Bible this week. Oh right, you know, I don't need to go on this walk and talk to God. It's not like that. It's like you do everything as unto God and you do it just because of you, love God. And I think a lot of this could just be summed up if people were passionate about Jesus. You know, a lot of people don't see Jesus as the true love of their life and I think we kind of put them on to this check mark and that's why we do rely on the gifts. We see the gifts I've been seeing it on so much, yeah and so we end up missing out on who God is and getting to see what God has for us and the actual power that his gift has for, like to work through us.
Speaker 2:And it's not about glorifying us and with the gifts it's about glorifying him, and I think it comes down to like a couple of things and that's just realizing that the gift isn't for us, it's to glorify God, and then realizing that the gift has no reflection on our status with Jesus. And then I guess there was a third one it's just falling in love with Jesus so that our gift can glorify him even more.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Because then people can see oh, we're all about Jesus. That must they. I think a lot of people will realize that our gift is flowing, and they will. They can look at the patterns we're doing and if we're not in the patterns, like that they think we should be in, like, let's say, we're not reading our Bible but yet we have great worship. I think people will look at that and be like, oh, the reading our Bible must not be that important, right and so.
Speaker 2:But Pastor, pastor Jeremy, we had a men's group and he said you know, a lot of the time, even though we do have, you know, like I think of it like as a reserve of oil, like you know, keep oil in your lamps for when the bridegroom comes. I think it's the same thing about how our gifts work is we have this oil and that's kind of just diving deep and being passionate about Jesus. We're filling that oil up, we're getting a reserve. I think at some point that oil's got to dry up and then our gift has no basis to go off of and so we just evaporates. And Pastor Jeremy's kind of said the same thing is your gift can operate a lot of the time without the Lord, and it at one point it's just going to, it's going to dry up. That's because you have no well to do to refill.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's going to get stale. I think another point kind of about this is for me I'm jumping down to the last point and just say it and that is for me what I need to feel intimate with the Lord, because okay for me. I am very much a person who can't live double. I can be double minded like anybody else, but I can't live a hypocrite's life. Even when I was little, when I was a younger, when I was a teenager, I went through a very rebellious period and I could not. I would do things and then I would be like Jesus, help me, I don't want to do this, but I couldn't. I only lived in this really rebellious place for so long because I couldn't live on the fence. I'm not a fence person.
Speaker 1:I'm either all in or all out, and so I lived all out but yet I still was hanging on to Jesus. So it's kind of on the fence. So it pulled me back over rather quickly because I couldn't live in both. So for me I can't, like when I I know when I'm doing things I shouldn't do, and I can't just disassociate and compartmentalize as easily. I know it affects me Like I just I will step down from ministry if I know that I'm I'm not, if I know that I'm making ways, choices and not having that or whatever.
Speaker 1:But for me, what causes me to be centered, you know, on the Lord and to empty myself of me and to receive him and to be intimate with him. It may take different things than it takes for you. Like, for instance, I have a very so one. I can't feel good. I have a higher level of um, I can't. The Holy spirit kind of convicts me pretty quickly because I can't live double life. Some people, they can compartmentalize very easily. Men have more ability to compartmentalize because that's the way their brains are wired. They're that's how their women's brains are all connected. Men's are not as connected.
Speaker 2:Got our boxes compartmentalize.
Speaker 1:So it's a little bit easier for men to compartmentalize If I can't turn that off as easily one. So that makes me have a higher need for purity, for me to feel for me, it's not because Jesus took my punishment, I'm forgiven, it's all under the blood, all that kind of stuff but for me to feel intimate with the Lord and to feel worthy of operating even though sometimes I have to overcome that because I, my actions don't make me worthy Jesus makes me worthy. But for me, knowing myself, to know what it takes for me to be emptied and for me to be intimate and for me to be full of him, I can't watch certain things, I can't. Have certain conversations I can't, and somebody else might be able to do some.
Speaker 1:Some things are permissible, you know. It's not. Some things are clear sins. Other things are permissible, you know, and so I think it's important to know that. No, it's important for each person to know what is it?
Speaker 1:What does intimacy with Jesus look like for you? It's never going to be out, it's never going to be sin. It's never going to be sin, even though you're forgiven and you're not made worthy on that. If you love somebody, you're not going to have affairs on them, like if you love somebody and you're committed to somebody, you're not going to beat them up. You know, like I mean really love somebody, unselfish love. You know, really love somebody. So there are things you're not going to do. There's sin, that is unacceptable.
Speaker 1:But there are also things that are going to be, like what makes me so. For instance, I feel like the Lord has told me I can't watch certain things, like he even has taken. I feel like I'm going to a different level of what I can and can't watch because I want deeper intimacy with him and in order for me to feel like I can, I have to be. I can't watch those things. Before a Sunday service, before I'm doing ministry, I really try to focus. I'm fat, I'm choosing to fast, sometimes I am really praying into that so that I can have that intimacy with the Lord because when I go into a situation of my gifts and operations where, when I go into a ministry situation, I want to know that I have, I'm not going to have to get through all the junk in order for me to hear from him.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to have to wait for it to to be kind of brushed off of me and to be emptied out.
Speaker 1:When I'm coming into a position of ministry, I'm going to already have that intimacy with God and have emptied myself so that I can just have that flow of intimacy while I'm ministering.
Speaker 1:So, and I just think that looks different for everybody and so I think people have to think about like I would put that question to our audience and what does it look like for you to empty yourself and to be intimate with God so that the gifts can be, so that you it's not so that it's thank you for the gifts, god, but you're really just an intimacy? What does that look like for you? And to really be thinking about that? And what does that look like in order for you to, when you stand in a place of those gifts and operation and a ministry, to just let the gifts go and make it about you and God? What does that look like to get you to that place and to get you to that place of being able to minister from a place of intimacy with God? So what does it look like for you? Like I don't know, I'm going to ask you, josiah.
Speaker 2:Well, for me, you know, there's just a couple of things that I do, and it's one number one thing.
Speaker 2:I think the largest thing that I do is I don't listen to anything but not secular music. I listen to only gospel or Christian music, as people call it, and then I listen to instrumental music and that's it. And that's because I feel like if I do that, it just can cut out a lot of the crap that's within the music. And I think that's because a lot of different things that I believe, but it brings me closer to intimacy with Jesus and closer in relationship with Jesus, because I'm constantly getting him in my ears, I'm constantly getting him in my mind because of the music I have.
Speaker 2:You know, you're singing it, you're vocalizing it, and so it's important that you're not spewing a crassness into your music, into your, you know, and you're not saying it out loud, because I think what comes out of your mouth comes into your heart. And so if you, if I'm seeing always about Jesus, there's only one thing that my heart's going to be getting receiving and that's Jesus. And so another thing that I've started doing is I've started going on walks with Jesus in the morning as much as I can it's hard to get up super early, but I'm going to be I'm starting to get up at like 730 in the morning go on a walk with not not I'm going to talk with God and not not necessarily pray, and there's a difference. I'm praying a lot of the times. We come to him with our needs and our and requests for him, but having a conversation with God and just allowing him to speak and we speak with him and it might be difficult at times Is that really God talking?
Speaker 1:And I'm just going to choose to believe that it's him talking and so his sheep know his voice and the voice of the mother they do not follow.
Speaker 2:Yep, and so, and that's another thing that I've started doing and it's just, it's much easier to you know, hear, hear him when you've been listening for him more, and then the only other thing is that on Sunday mornings I make sure that you know if I'm going to be using the gifts and that I want to make sure that it's about him is just before you go in. It's, it's really nice to have prayer before we worship, because it's like we're setting the mood right. We're setting making sure it's about him, it's not about the performance, which I think, if you, I think that's what I've noticed, even with open waters that when we don't pray, a lot of the times you get more anchored on the performance portion than the worship portion, and so that helps a lot too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it does. So the other thing I think we talked about is one of the byproducts of when you're focused on him and intimacy with him, what's that? It doesn't it really Kind of towards that competitive comparison environment, because if you're all focused on him, an Intimacy is the the place in which you're coming, it's the goal and all that. Those gifts, they don't freaking matter. I mean, yes, you're grateful, but they don't freaking matter.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's. It's like all the elders dropping their crowns before before the Lord, I mean even our. We're all kings and queens in Christ and it's like, well, when all our, of our heads are to the ground, nobody's crown is gonna be higher than each other, because we're all focused on worshiping Jesus right.
Speaker 2:Yeah so when we're focused on Jesus, it makes it real hard, that it's hard to humble yourself and exalt yourself at the same time, because that's that's one of the things that people have very hard time doing. It's hard to be humble and hard to be prideful in yourself at the same time. Yeah, and if you're worshiping Jesus and you're exalting, truly exalting Jesus, then I don't think it's possible right to exalt herself because you're, you're, you're, you're facedown, you know right and it's. You can't be standing and exalted on this platform when you're facedown.
Speaker 1:So it's good, that's really good. I also want to say, just in regards to actually the last point that we kind of talked about, that intimacy may look different in different seasons of your life. Like it, not only is it gonna look different for different people, but there it can look different in different seasons of life. So right now it may look like it is right now, but Two years from now it may look different for me, or six months down the road it may look different for me, and so I think that's something. It's not a religious thing again.
Speaker 1:It's a like in your relationships, like there are different needs in a relationship that arise at different times, and so, so that's gonna be the case with your relationship with the Lord as well. Mm-hmm and it's not so much that he changes, because he's the same as today, today and forever, but you're constantly changing. At least you should be.
Speaker 2:It's called maturing. Yeah, you never hit maturity till you reach heaven, and I don't even know about that because I've never been there, so it might be even a process then to go to see that movie, though on Friday. Yeah, after that afterlife movie after death. Yeah, after death movie. Yeah, after this should be very interesting.
Speaker 1:Anyway, that's about all I have on that topic. How about you?
Speaker 2:I think you know, just Fallen of a Jesus. I wanted to say this is, I think, a lot of the time, if we not a lot of time I don't know why I start off like that a lot but I do. But I would say that I think if the Utah Valley just learned in the churches within the Valley, you just learned how to chase, oh, after one thing, and that's Jesus and not the gifts, churches will be unified, people will be reached. And it's because we're we're learning how to be unified after one goal and that's just loving Jesus.
Speaker 2:Yes and it really I mean, it sounds so simple and that's because it really is is we just love Jesus. People are attracted to a unified people and people are attracted to people that are dedicated and have a goal and have aspirations and that are all for something and that is for Jesus. And I think they people will fall in love with Jesus if we just show them that we're in love with Jesus.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and.
Speaker 2:I don't want this to take too long. You know, I think I've been in the Utah Valley my entire life and it's one thing to see like almost no progress, you know, not saying there's no progress, but like there should be more people being saved Every day than there has been in dear years prior. And so I think that just comes down to loving Jesus and linking arms with other churches, which is a topic for another day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good. We'll put that one down for the future.
Speaker 2:We will all right, all righty.
Speaker 1:So enjoy this topic. I love you, josiah.
Speaker 2:Love you too, mother. All righty, we will talk to you guys later, in two weeks or three weeks, whenever the next episode happens to be second Week of the month that will be in two weeks. By the way, guys, that'll be the 6th of November. We will be dropping our next episode. Well, keep your eyes open, keep your eyes peeled, take care.
Speaker 1:See you later.
